Tesla model 3

[davey_83]

^ lol he's words..... not mine 

 

 

[Zeezeebaba]

2 hours ago, davey_83 said:

^ lol he's words..... not mine 

 

 

 

Interview I watched he said the opposite lol apparently he didn't even pray when he had a severe case of malaria . Can't make his mind up obviously

Just like all the child raping priests you must like because they believe in that nonsense aye mate.

Onwards and upwards. 

Totally agree with the rest of your post though

[Zeezeebaba]

My daughter keeps asking when mum is getting her plug and play car

My reply was along the lines of "When you start uni probably", she's 11

 

[gangzoom]

23 minutes ago, Zeezeebaba said:

My daughter keeps asking when mum is getting her plug and play car

My reply was along the lines of "When you start uni probably", she's 11

 

 

Well that might not be far off, Musk is now talking about moving motor production for the S/X over to the Gigafactory to make more space for Model 3 demand because it's looking like they might hit 700K orders!!

 

From Tesla's point RHD cars simply delay profit/income as the time from finishing production to customer collection is so long. I confirmed the order for our replacement X on the 14th of July, it went it to production on the 4th of August - currently still in production, than there is a 2 week transfer from factory on east coast to west coast, another 4 week on a boat, than 1 more week at Tilburg, 2 more weeks to arrive in UK, before finally getting prepped for delivery. That's 2 months of transit time alone on a car that's already in full RHD production.

 

https://electrek.co/2017/08/07/tesla-model-3-annual-demand-elon-musk/

 

If North American orders keep on building, RHD delivery times will slip more and more, Tesla will have no interest in diverting resources to RHD production if the production line is rammed, 2020 is now looking optimistic. On the other-hand used Model S prices are falling. A Tesla approved 85S is now going for £45K, that will come with a 4 year 50K warranty. In 12-18 months time if a used facelift S comes in at a sensible price might make a decent alternative for the wife whilst waiting for the 3......

 

I do like the idea of owning a S and X together whilst waiting for the 3, got to collect them all at some point

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by gangzoom

[coldel]

I wouldn't get too carried away Elon  at the moment Tesla only really offer mainstream EV cars in prices that some people can afford (or borrow heavily to have) as soon as all the mainstream boys decide the market is worth entering they will throw huge sums at developing rivals which will snatch a fair bit of market share off Tesla. If the car market is anything its brand snobbery, people will certainly go for a Jag EV equivalent to say a model S I would have thought, even if its not as good. 

[Zeezeebaba]

23 minutes ago, coldel said:

I wouldn't get too carried away Elon  at the moment Tesla only really offer mainstream EV cars in prices that some people can afford (or borrow heavily to have) as soon as all the mainstream boys decide the market is worth entering they will throw huge sums at developing rivals which will snatch a fair bit of market share off Tesla. If the car market is anything its brand snobbery, people will certainly go for a Jag EV equivalent to say a model S I would have thought, even if its not as good. 

 

Excellent point and one I've thrashed out with the other half. However getting her running with this point is falling on deaf ears . However even seeing her excited about a car is a positive so I'm not pushing my luck on this one lol.

[davey_83]

1 hour ago, Zeezeebaba said:

 

Interview I watched he said the opposite lol apparently he didn't even pray when he had a severe case of malaria . Can't make his mind up obviously

Just like all the child raping priests you must like because they believe in that nonsense aye mate.

Onwards and upwards. 

Totally agree with the rest of your post though

 

Yeah, seem like nice folk too LOL

 

Not my thread to bash, so handbrake is firmly pulled up.

[gangzoom]

1 hour ago, coldel said:

 If the car market is anything its brand snobbery, people will certainly go for a Jag EV equivalent to say a model S I would have thought, even if its not as good. 

 

The iPace is coming, and I have half an eye on it.

 

The specs are pretty decent 90kWh (same as any Tesla), two motors for AWD, decent looking interior.

 

Key though will be price. Jag initial hinted at pricing of 15% more than a F-Pace (£50K), but more recently making noises along the lines of 'it'll be worth it' so may end up close to X pricing (£70K+).

 

People are badge snobs, but people also need to look at their bank accounts. At £70K your looking at 6-7 seater cars with all the utility that comes with it, Q7/RangeRover/XC90/Model X. iPace is smaller than the F-pace which already less practical than larger SUVs.

 

At £50K the iPace would be half tempting at £70K+ its way over priced, guess we will find out next year.

 

Interestingly the Jag XE starts at £29K, that's for the 4 cylinder diesel in base trim, the full fat V6 is £47K before options. I would say Tesla have priced the Model 3 almost perfectly interms of competing with BMW/Merc/Jag/Audi in the small saloon market.

Edited August 8, 2017 by gangzoom

[coldel]

The cost of current diesel/petrol vs Tesla is not the issue, its when Jag etc make mass market EV cars same price or even higher than Tesla, plenty of the market will move into Jag or otherwise rather than Tesla. So although Tesla have a free run at it now, in future I would suspect they will drop way down the list Happens in so many markets where you get start ups doing the leg work and then the big companies replicate and take over.

[Stutopia]

When batting around figures like 50k or 80k for a flash family tug, akin to what someone might spend on a RR, is anyone really going to be paying those prices though? Isn't it just going to be the difference of a few quid per month on a finance deal?

[Jetpilot]

8 hours ago, davey_83 said:

^ lol he's words..... not mine 

 

 

 

i didnt mean you, i meant the ev messiah

[gangzoom]

3 hours ago, coldel said:

The cost of current diesel/petrol vs Tesla is not the issue, its when Jag etc make mass market EV cars same price or even higher than Tesla, plenty of the market will move into Jag or otherwise rather than Tesla. So although Tesla have a free run at it now, in future I would suspect they will drop way down the list Happens in so many markets where you get start ups doing the leg work and then the big companies replicate and take over.

 

The problem most manufactures haven't realise is just how hard it is to mass produce batteries for a cheap price. Tesla is burning cash to get their own battery factory up and running because they know without a 100% guaranteed battery supply you might as well shut down the production line. It's like building a petrol car but not been in control of engine manufacturing/supply.

 

LG is currently suppling VW with batteries for eGolf, BMW i3, and Hyundai Ioniq and already struggling to meet demand, even though those cars sell in tiny numbers compared to what Tesla is pushing for with Model 3. 

 

A lot of manufactures are heading for a massive shock when they realise their current manufacturing lines are essentially useless for making EVs because the tech and skill required to assemble an electric motor and battery pack is very very different from combustion cars. 

 

https://qtelegram.com/hyundai-would-have-underestimated-the-success-of-its-electric-ioniq-and-is-currently-struggling-to-meet-demand-due-to-too-low-battery-production/7945

[coldel]

Money makes the world go round. What if VW walks up to the tesla suppliers or employees and offers bigger money? I find it very difficult to imagine tesla being able to prevent reproduction of its own tech and large firms setting up to supply them what they need, and I would think they have the intelligence to know what is required.

[gangzoom]

9 hours ago, coldel said:

Money makes the world go round. What if VW walks up to the tesla suppliers or employees and offers bigger money? I find it very difficult to imagine tesla being able to prevent reproduction of its own tech and large firms setting up to supply them what they need, and I would think they have the intelligence to know what is required.

 

Am pretty sure the CEOs of Kodak, Nokia, Wang computers all thought the same ;).

 

Some of the big names in car manufacturing will go the same way as those companies, those that survive will be the ones that can innovate, Nissan will be fine, but Toyota am not sure.

[Ekona]

The blue rinse brigade will keep Toyota alive forever. No-one else has been buying the crap they've been producing for the last ten years after all.*

 

 

 

*GT86 aside.

[coldel]

3 hours ago, gangzoom said:

 

Am pretty sure the CEOs of Kodak, Nokia, Wang computers all thought the same ;).

 

Some of the big names in car manufacturing will go the same way as those companies, those that survive will be the ones that can innovate, Nissan will be fine, but Toyota am not sure.

 

Calling out company names without any knowledge of why things happen doesnt really support your argument ( I dont know maybe you do?) I worked for a consumer research company that was the preferred supplier of insight when Nokia fell from grace and I know exactly why they did (because they flat out ignored our recommendations to follow this new touch screen phone made by Apple at the time). That is not happening with the major car manufacturers, as you keenly throw up onto the forum every time one opens a new department to develop EVs or release details of the next EV car by Jaguar or the like. So your comparison is not really valid although can see what you are trying to get at, same for Kodak (I worked in Japan with the ex head of development at Kodak who told a similar story of frustrating ignorance by the board - although Kodak still employs thousands of people driving $2bn revenue streams apparently).

 

Many companies do NOT have to innovate, I presume you know what an M&A team does? Look at one of the biggest companies in the world in WPP, their strategy is not to innovate, simply to purchase innovations that have measured success and create a huge group pf profitable businesses. I wouldn't be surprised if the MD of VW is sitting there waiting to add Tesla to their portfolio when the time comes 

[gangzoom]

1 hour ago, coldel said:

So your comparison is not really valid although can see what you are trying to get at.

 

CEOs lead a company, if you read the comments many CEOs have made about EVs your see what am talking about. Many hate the idea of building EVs almost as much as you guys, and all want Tesla to flop. 

 

Lots of companies are making noise about EVs, but very few are delivering. Nissan-Renualt the major expection. GM have built the Bolt but bizzarly don't seem to want to sell them, and almost treating it like EV1.

 

I guess we'll see in the next few years, but with both Tesla and Nissan (in a few weeks) announcing much more affordable 200 mile range EVs, everyone else better start showing products rather than just talk.

 

It remains to be seen just how much production Jag will be pushing with the iPace. Certainly some think it's a compliance car to allow Jag not to be penalised by the EPA in the US. The fact the iPace isn't even been built by Jag seems to back that up, but I hope not. A 10-20k production cap would be such shame for a good looking EV. Again we will know soon enough.

[davey_83]

EV in the UK account for very little of the overall market, so why pump their showrooms full of silent vehicles if the buying public aren't interested? The infrastructure for EV today isn't in place the same way fuel stations are so to the average Joe ICE is king. The industry is moving towards hybrid at the moment and will do for a good while yet.

 

Working for the biggest lease company in the UK (ie bigger than both our closest competitors put together) would you like you guess from the 330,000 plus vehicles we have, how many are from Tesla?

[coldel]

33 minutes ago, gangzoom said:

 

CEOs lead a company, if you read the comments many CEOs have made about EVs your see what am talking about. Many hate the idea of building EVs almost as much as you guys, and all want Tesla to flop. 

 

Lots of companies are making noise about EVs, but very few are delivering. Nissan-Renualt the major expection. GM have built the Bolt but bizzarly don't seem to want to sell them, and almost treating it like EV1.

 

I guess we'll see in the next few years, but with both Tesla and Nissan (in a few weeks) announcing much more affordable 200 mile range EVs, everyone else better start showing products rather than just talk.

 

It remains to be seen just how much production Jag will be pushing with the iPace. Certainly some think it's a compliance car to allow Jag not to be penalised by the EPA in the US. The fact the iPace isn't even been built by Jag seems to back that up, but I hope not. A 10-20k production cap would be such shame for a good looking EV. Again we will know soon enough.

 

Are they dithering? Or are they simply waiting for the right time to enter the market? EVs are still a small percentage of global car sales, there is still a decade or two of sales at least left in fossil fuel cars and its unlikely that they would receive the huge government subsidies that Tesla has received (some $5bn estimated) to keep their EV development alive.

 

If I were a CEO of a large car manufacturer would I be publicly talking about the end of fossil fuel cars when my company sits on the stock exchange selling tens of millions of them globally, of course not. Would I be sitting there behind closed doors putting various plans in to place either be it via the multitude of acquisition/partnership possibilities or looking at the viability of building our own capability, yes. Would I be throwing everything the company has at rolling out dozens of EVs which right now accounts for a couple of percent of the market, personally no. 

[coldel]

Quick question GZ, would you buy a Hybrid Tesla or an EV Kia? 

[gangzoom]

1 hour ago, coldel said:

Quick question GZ, would you buy a Hybrid Tesla or an EV Kia? 

 

Kia EV all the way. If my wife was agreeable I would be happy to swap her Lexus for a Leaf tomorrow......But the important bit there is 'her'. She rather have a Lexus hybrid than a full Nissan EV, shes a badge snob am not 

Edited August 9, 2017 by gangzoom

[Ekona]

Why on earth are so many men still under the thumb when it comes to choosing cars? Fair enough if the lady of the house is paying for it, otherwise she gets what she's given

[Mikevv]

22 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Why on earth are so many men still under the thumb when it comes to choosing cars? Fair enough if the lady of the house is paying for it, otherwise she gets what she's given

Apparently women have rights now?  

Edited August 9, 2017 by Mikevv

[Ekona]

I think they prefer to be known as women

[gangzoom]

6 hours ago, Ekona said:

Why on earth are so many men still under the thumb when it comes to choosing cars? Fair enough if the lady of the house is paying for it, otherwise she gets what she's given

 

Couldnt agree more, everyone should get what they want.

 

The lady of our house paid for her Lexus in full with her own cash and actually contributed 30% of the X costs. She wants a Model 3 to replace the Lexus so am not going to argue, it's her money.....However I might have some influence when ticking the spec sheet. Premium interior/Autopilot I really don't care, it's the 'P' option that will be most of interest.