coldel Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 It was more of a general comment about the complaints, not directed at you. The political system is what it is, it wont change unless you actively do something about it and the most impactful thing you can do is go and vote for something. Including spoiling papers. What is stopping you doing that? That is in effect a vote against the people you have overtly called out as stopping you from voting. What you have said is totally aligned to why vote papers are spoiled - a million ticks on the government petition site gets a debate in parliament, a million spoiled vote papers would probably achieve even more. Can I ask, have you registered to vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 So what will we talk about after today? I mean obviously Dan will start another one of his amazing 30 page threads, and i guess we'll dissect the result a bit. Best get thinking of a new topic Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 It was more of a general comment about the complaints, not directed at you. The political system is what it is, it wont change unless you actively do something about it and the most impactful thing you can do is go and vote for something. Including spoiling papers. What is stopping you doing that? That is in effect a vote against the people you have overtly called out as stopping you from voting. What you have said is totally aligned to why vote papers are spoiled - a million ticks on the government petition site gets a debate in parliament, a million spoiled vote papers would probably achieve even more. Can I ask, have you registered to vote? There is always military uprising and dictatorship if he fancies it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Given how much you like a good bit of research, and you're clearly not a completely unintelligent moron, I can't understand how you feel there's not enough information out there for to disseminate enough fact to make a reasoned decision. You do masses of research into making an exhaust leak or filling a mount with rubber, but you won't do it for who's actually running the country? How odd. There just isn't enough to go on without dedicating an unfeasible amount of time to it, and as said, I'm fine with whatever happens. Even if you vote for what you want to happen, there's still a good chance they won't follow through with their claims. Then trying to understand all the side affects of the decisions is borderline impossible. Considering the amount of research I did into an exhaust leak which is reversible in 5 minutes if I don't like it, apply some extrapolation and you start to understand the extent of the research required to make a decision that affects the country forever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 It was more of a general comment about the complaints, not directed at you. The political system is what it is, it wont change unless you actively do something about it and the most impactful thing you can do is go and vote for something. Including spoiling papers. What is stopping you doing that? That is in effect a vote against the people you have overtly called out as stopping you from voting. What you have said is totally aligned to why vote papers are spoiled - a million ticks on the government petition site gets a debate in parliament, a million spoiled vote papers would probably achieve even more. Can I ask, have you registered to vote? You used the word "you" a lot for it to be a general comment not directed at me I haven't registered to vote, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I hate posting links to media articles as there will always be a political spin to it but worth reading Strudul, I think the general consensus is that they do not commit to promises made but this has no backing and no evidence behind it. Of course will they be able to implement everything, our wonderful changing world means they cannot, but have a read through and see how much actually does get done https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/14/how-much-of-the-conservatives-2010-election-manifesto-was-implemented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 It was more of a general comment about the complaints, not directed at you. The political system is what it is, it wont change unless you actively do something about it and the most impactful thing you can do is go and vote for something. Including spoiling papers. What is stopping you doing that? That is in effect a vote against the people you have overtly called out as stopping you from voting. What you have said is totally aligned to why vote papers are spoiled - a million ticks on the government petition site gets a debate in parliament, a million spoiled vote papers would probably achieve even more. Can I ask, have you registered to vote? You used the word "you" a lot for it to be a general comment not directed at me I haven't registered to vote, no. Fine whatever paranoia issues you have there sat at your keyboard about how the forum hates you and the like. Take it as you want. In actual fact I am trying to enlighten you to spoilt paper voting as the clearly obvious alternative which many people who are apathetic around voting choose to ignore as a way of voicing your current issues around politicians - reason being because I felt exactly the same way when I was in my teens and didn't bother voting for years, then the realisation hits you as you get older and wiser how much missed opportunity there has been. If you are happy to take whatever happens fine, but you cannot state hatred of politicans, lack of information etc as reasons when there is a way to be part of the process to voice that concern and enact change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Fine whatever paranoia issues you have there sat at your keyboard about how the forum hates you and the like. Take it as you want. In actual fact I am trying to enlighten you to spoilt paper voting as the clearly obvious alternative which many people who are apathetic around voting choose to ignore as a way of voicing your current issues around politicians - reason being because I felt exactly the same way when I was in my teens and didn't bother voting for years, then the realisation hits you as you get older and wiser how much missed opportunity there has been. If you are happy to take whatever happens fine, but you cannot state hatred of politicans, lack of information etc as reasons when there is a way to be part of the process to voice that concern and enact change. You quoted me and seemed to be asking me questions, I just don't understand how I'm supposed to interpret that as not being directed at me??? Got no problem with it, just don't understand why you are denying it I'm well aware that a spoilt ballot would be the best option, but if you refer back to my reply to Jay: Cliche I know, but the percentage of spoilt ballots is too low for mine to make a difference and I'm happy enough to just go with the majority. I don't go around ranting about it, I generally avoid the topic altogether and don't get involved. The only reason I did was in response to BobbyZ's comment. After that I was just responding to other's remarks / questions. Edited June 8, 2017 by Strudul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I explained (oh do i have to repeat myself here, again) that it wasn't directed at you, i meant it, I used you as a more general term around people complaining about policies etc. (which you havent done so again it wasnt directed at you) but do not vote. As I say, again, you can either take that as true or allow paranoia to dictate what you think. I also pointed out quite clearly that 100k spoiled papers in 2015, and that if the millions who claim to have the mindset you had around politicans spoiled papers it would make a difference. It does involve you registering to vote though, getting yourself over to a polling station on the day and doing it. I can only assume that from your other posts around being very apathetic around who runs the country, that you don't care to, which is a shame the more people make their vote count the more likely this country will be run in the way people want it run. Stop worrying about countering every question that is put to you for a change and try read between the lines that actually this is a post around trying to give you a bit of information or support around something that you cited as a problem. Take it or leave it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I have to say, after every other election Ive been able to vote in being a decision between the centre, the guys 1 degree left and the guys 1 degree right its refreshing to actually see 2 major parties with totally different policies, and 3 minor parties that offer different policies again. Not voting because you dont like the leaders is stupid, they will be gone before long anyway and I find it difficult to accept that an individual cannot find a party that suits them best but I bet we still get a 65% turnout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) I can almost guarantee there will be very strong protests (I hesitate to use the word riot) in major cities if the Tories win today. It almost makes me want to see Labour win, just to see if we get the same thing from right-wingers. And of course, anyone who voted Tory will be called evil and morally bankrupt and that we wrecked the country. I just want the best for my country, I couldn't really care less who was in power as long as they make things better. If Labour win and they can make things better without screwing me to the wall then I'm all for it. That's ok, I'd label anyone who didn't vote Tory (this time, only) selfish at worst, or at best, failing to understand what's in their own best interest (and that best interest has absolutely F all to do with Tory vs Labour policy, it's ONLY about making sure whoever wins has a strong majority so there isn't endless back and forth bickering over details of brexit). When the Trump has been impeached, and Brexit is a memory, and ISIS has been contained, then you can start looking to the future again, for now, please, I beg you, think of the SHORT TERM success of the UK in this global turmoil and give someone a strong majority. I am a tory, I was raised tory, but that has nothing to do with this, if I thought Labour had a better chance than the Tories, I'd be saying vote labour. Who wins is not important, what's important is that whoever it is, they win big. Contrary to popular belief, politicians aren't idiots (except Boris). What we really need right now is Winston Churchill, which is why the Tories have been banging on about strong and stable leadership (and ridiculed for it, naturally, because we haven't seen strong leadership in decades), but they know the public is sick of chinless wonders in Downing Street so want to present the illusion that they can do the Churchill job for us. We are obliged to give them a chance to try, or suffer the consequences. It;s only for a few years, go back to voting based on policy next GE. If there is no majority for either party, this will be the 4th travesty of democracy in as many years. Edited June 8, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 Gentlemen, can I suggest we simply stop responding to Strudel's comments in threads like this? Every time he posts it seems to take us off track with regards to how he likes to focus on things and how the rest of us cannot see just how he comes to these conclusions. I humbly suggest that we never will, and neither do I think he brings anything to the table in terms of moving these debates forward. All we are doing is 'feeding the troll', and that's not making for adult discussions at all as it's becoming Us vs Him. That's not great for the forum, and I'll be the first to stand here and suggest it's not making great reading for others. People like Stu etc I can happily debate with for hours, despite being miles apart in terms of ideas and thoughts. We all have different political POVs, but bickering with Strudel is doing none of us any favours and I suggest we rise above it and stop entertaining him on the more grown-up threads. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I explained (oh do i have to repeat myself here, again) that it wasn't directed at you, i meant it, I used you as a more general term around people complaining about policies etc. (which you havent done so again it wasnt directed at you) but do not vote. As I say, again, you can either take that as true or allow paranoia to dictate what you think. I also pointed out quite clearly that 100k spoiled papers in 2015, and that if the millions who claim to have the mindset you had around politicans spoiled papers it would make a difference. It does involve you registering to vote though, getting yourself over to a polling station on the day and doing it. I can only assume that from your other posts around being very apathetic around who runs the country, that you don't care to, which is a shame the more people make their vote count the more likely this country will be run in the way people want it run. Stop worrying about countering every question that is put to you for a change and try read between the lines that actually this is a post around trying to give you a bit of information or support around something that you cited as a problem. Take it or leave it. Well aware of what you said, but you're missing the point. What you said and what your actions implied are different. Is it my fault I interpreted it that way and down to "paranoia issues"? I don't think so. If you quote someone and then write a message below (especially incorporating terms like "you"), it generally means what you write is in relation to the quoted text and directed at the person quoted. I'm not saying this to be patronising, but purely to justify my response and illustrate the ambiguity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Gentlemen, can I suggest we simply stop responding to Strudel's comments in threads like this? Every time he posts it seems to take us off track with regards to how he likes to focus on things and how the rest of us cannot see just how he comes to these conclusions. I humbly suggest that we never will, and neither do I think he brings anything to the table in terms of moving these debates forward. All we are doing is 'feeding the troll', and that's not making for adult discussions at all as it's becoming Us vs Him. That's not great for the forum, and I'll be the first to stand here and suggest it's not making great reading for others. People like Stu etc I can happily debate with for hours, despite being miles apart in terms of ideas and thoughts. We all have different political POVs, but bickering with Strudel is doing none of us any favours and I suggest we rise above it and stop entertaining him on the more grown-up threads. Way ahead bud, i allowed my self 2 responses. I had them. Keeping shtum now. Edit: thats to say 2 responses of differing opinion to avoid going in circles. Edited June 8, 2017 by Jay84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) In that case, can I just say, that while I would never say strudul is completely innocent of what he is accused (he does like to argue!), he is treated with an unnecessary level of disrespect around here (since the exhaust blowing incident), and some of you have started to deliberately 'set him off' recently, A reset is certainly warranted on BOTH sides. May I suggest that if you are tired of hearing Strudul's slightly left field rhetoric, then just add him to your blocked users list, because the disdain that some of you now have for him, is hampering your objectivity and actually causing you to become the bad guys at times. /gets down off soapbox and stops wagging finger Edited June 8, 2017 by Aashenfox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Gentlemen, can I suggest we simply stop responding to Strudel's comments in threads like this? Every time he posts it seems to take us off track with regards to how he likes to focus on things and how the rest of us cannot see just how he comes to these conclusions. I humbly suggest that we never will, and neither do I think he brings anything to the table in terms of moving these debates forward. All we are doing is 'feeding the troll', and that's not making for adult discussions at all as it's becoming Us vs Him. That's not great for the forum, and I'll be the first to stand here and suggest it's not making great reading for others. People like Stu etc I can happily debate with for hours, despite being miles apart in terms of ideas and thoughts. We all have different political POVs, but bickering with Strudel is doing none of us any favours and I suggest we rise above it and stop entertaining him on the more grown-up threads. If you don't like my viewpoint that's fine, I'm not forcing it on anyone or saying they can't vote. All I'm doing is addressing the questions asked about my view. If you don't want an answer, don't ask the question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 I didnt actually see the exhaust blowing incident but I do find he takes the counterside incessantly and unnecessarily on everything. A counter is great but dragging it out for 200 pages just for the sake of it isnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Take this as fair warning - Keep on track or find your posts disappearing and points added to accounts. This applies to all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Well said Al, there is a certain atmosphere about this place from time time of late that makes it not so enjoyable to visit as it once was. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Well that's me voted. Now the waiting game. Incidentally how long does it take to count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Historically Sunderland does declare first, around 11:45pm. They like to make sure its them first, they literally have runners sprinting with ballot boxes and a hall of trained counters! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Exit polls at 10 should give you a good idea of turnout etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Historically Sunderland does declare first, around 11:45pm. They like to make sure its them first, they literally have runners sprinting with ballot boxes and a hall of trained counters! why is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Historically Sunderland does declare first, around 11:45pm. They like to make sure its them first, they literally have runners sprinting with ballot boxes and a hall of trained counters! why is this? Lord knows, have a plough through this http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/election-2015-sunderland-aiming-be-first-declare-results-sixth-time-row-1500166 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsexr Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Remember guy`s, its for 5 years not a lifetime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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